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Current Replies for Stiffed on a breeding..
3/10/2008 5:14:08 PM
Posts: 1
Hi everyone,

Not sure if there is someone who has dealed with something like this but here is my question. I have 1 1/2 Pomeranian female; I paid $500 for a stud fee to a breeder in Plant City Florida; after 2 weeks the breeder called me and said that the dogs did breed once and she felt confident that is was a successful breeding. We received a receipt with a standard fine print saying a breeding is defined as male and female locking up (this supposedly happen) we just found out today from the vet that she is not carrying any puppies at all; I called the breeder and she said that is not her problem anymore; if we wanted to breed again we would have to pay another $500 dollar. Is there a law in Florida that states she can take my money with-out providing a take (Pregnancy)for my female? I feel I have a possible small claims court case but want someone advise prior. Any info would help; thanks to all!
3/11/2008 4:48:34 AM
Posts: 1904
IF you had no stud contract, then she fulfilled her part of the agreement. She bred to your dog. IF you want to re-breed, then another stud fee is in line because that is HOW she does it.

Details of stud agreements vary depending on what each party wants.

Most stud agreements define proof of health test requirements on both sides, showing they have passed OFA, CERF and/or whatever other health tests are normal within the breed. Also a Brucelosis test is a MUST. If you do not know what Brucelosis is, do a web search on it.

Most agreements define HOW many breedings will take place. How many days apart..and some even define how many witnesses there must be.

Some require a deposit up front and the remainder of the stud fee is paid upon delivery of an agreed upon number of puppies. Usually the agreed amount is 1 or 2 live puppies for a set time frame...say 2 weeks. IF that number is not attained then no remainder is paid. At this time the parties can discuss rebreeding...or passing on a rebreed. IF that number and time frame is attained then the remainder of the stud fee must be paid out.

Again, these agreements vary from breed to breed.

There is no law anywhere that will define this as you are looking for. it would be a pretty silly law to be honest. This is what contracts are for. It seems from what you are saying, your agreement was a 500$ stud fee, with no allowance for live birth. Ergo, her part of the agreement was fulfilled. There is also, mother nature to consider, and your girl simply might not have been at a fertile point when she was bred. This is what progesterone/estrogen tests are for. To help narrow the window where a successful breeding can take place. Even IF some eggs were fertilized, its entirely possible that during transport back from the stud owners location stress affected her and her body reabsorbed the fertilized eggs. It does happen.

Serena Galloway
IGCA rescue Colorado

No Part of this msg may be forwarded without the author's permission
3/11/2008 4:55:40 AM
Posts: 206
I have no idea if there is a "law", but if you signed a contract that did not state a policy on a breeding that did not take, well......

Normally a stud contract will state that the owner of the stud dog will guarantee one or two live puppies. If that does not occur, a repeat breeding of the same bitch is offered at no additional charge. However, from what you said in regards to the contract, you paid for the "service" and not the guarantee of puppies.

These are the type of things that you should have researched BEFORE breeding your bitch.

Not all breedings result in puppies. Did you do progesterone testing before to determine the time of ovulation? Was the stud dog tested to see if the sperm was viable? I certainly hope that the dogs were tested for brucellosis, if not you could be dealing with a lot more than no puppies!

Take the time to research the breed further, do what health testing is necessary, have your bitch evaluated for quality and search for a reputable breeder.

Kivalina Siberian Huskies and Polish Lowland Sheepdogs
3/11/2008 7:40:02 PM
Posts: 137
It doesn't sound like you have a contract at all prior to this breeding taking place.

Reputable breeders have reasonable stud contracts. For instance, I bred to a male once, and I only had one puppy. The contract stipulates/guarantees 2 live puppies living to the age of 2 weeks. I returned for a repeat breeding one year later, and my girl again only had one puppy. But this puppy died the day she turned 2 weeks old. I guess the stud dog owner could have been a jerk and said the contract was fulfilled but that's not how reasonable, reputable breeders work. That female was spayed right after her second singleton litter and I didn't have another female that was right for that male for another 3 years. I returned with the niece of the original female last summer and finally got a beautiful litter of 9.

I'm going through a similar situation with another female now. I bred her to a wonderful male last spring and there was no pregnancy. I just repeated the breeding, we go for an ultrasound on the 27th but they've already told me they are committed to making sure I get a viable litter as per our contract. If this doesn't work, I will consider taking one of my other girls there.

Anyway, IMO, your girl is too young to breed at only 18 months. Certain health tests can not be done until they turn 2. I don't believe they are mature enough mentally to handle litters at her age so I'd be thanking my lucky stars she isn't pregnant and I'd be doing a lot more research about responsible breeding.
3/30/2008 5:56:41 AM
Posts: 73
No, there is nothing you can do because the stud dog owner did nothing wrong. She defined what a breeding was and you accepted the terms by signing the contract and by breeding your bitch. The stud dog owner fulfilled her end of the contract.

It doesn't sound fair, but it's what it is. Breedings do not always result in puppies and it's something bitch owners have to face all the time.

I will add that it is common courtesy to do the breeding more than once. Generally you breed the pair every other day for the span of a week. I would never imagine just breeding the pair once. It's also common to allow the bitch to come back for a second breeding at no charge if no puppies resulted from the breeding. The only additional cost would maybe be boarding costs associated with the stud owner keeping the bitch.

I think you lost your money but hopefully learned to always read the contract thoroughly before signing or agreeing to it.
4/3/2008 7:54:22 PM
Posts: 5
the way i do is ,i will let them breed while the female's owner is there and let the owner see they are locked.sometimes it can be difficult and my husband will help while we stay in the house and after locked,we go and let the owner see they are locked.we wait in the house while they are locked and when done,the owner takes the female home with her and bring her back the next day.the female can have false pregnancy,false heat,or sometimes just not take,sometimes a young female will want to breed early,when she doesn't have eggs that have dropped,i breed the 6th or 7th day after she starts bleeding,only have one or two pups or 6 pups,the # depends on the female.
Redrock Pits
6/28/2008 8:01:28 AM
Posts: 14
I don't want to sound harsh but....

Take it as a loss. You were too busy, just wanting to 'breed' your female, that you didn't stop and do your homework.

Next time, talk to the owner of the stud. Ask her what her protocol is. DO NOT hand over money until you read a contract and you are happy with it! If you are not happy with the terms--go somewhere else. I know breeders that will video tape each session, so there is proof that the breedings were done